Camp Fire Oral History- Elizabeth Anderson, May, 17, 2019

Camp Fire Oral History Project

Interviewee: Elizabeth Anderson

Date of interview: May 17, 2019

Interviewer: Stefani BaldiviaInterview Transcription

Stefani Baldivia: And then we can begin.

Elizabeth Anderson.: Okay.

S.B.: So thank you so much for being here today. Yeah definitely make use of that water, and I can refill that at any time if you'd like.

E.A.: It just looks eco-friendly.

S.B.: Oh thank you, yeah. Um--so I wanted to start with--if you could tell me what your name is.

E.A.: My name is Elizabeth--uh--Anderson.

S.B.: Okay, and what is your age and occupation? if you don't mind.

E.A.: I'm 57 years old, and I might be your jack of all trades. Um--I have a Bachelor of Arts from Hayward State, which is now East Bay State in California.

S.B.: Mm-hmm.

E.A.: That's in social work. For me social work is just everything. Um--I'd been doing nursing since the 1980s. I worked with every kind of patient that you can come up with as a definition. I've worked with them.

S.B.: Oh wow.

E.A.: I've work with Parkinson's hospice cancer patients. Also a special thing that I'd like to say on my resume is, I was a suicide prevention hotline person 00:01:00with the County of San Mateo. And I work the graveyard shift from 11:00 PM to 07:00 AM. And I got all kinds of calls. That was in the 90s, and it was mostly sexual harassment calls. So that subject doesn't go away. That's back in the news now.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Um--at the time of the fire I worked for Butte--um--elections. It was really fun to work with the elections, and see the comments that people write down. It's actually humorous you know?

S.B.: Good.

E.A.: But--uh--I did that, and also nursing at the same time.

S.B.: Oh wow.

E.A.: Because I just had a patient that died, so that's when I look around and say, "Let me do something else for a while, and then I'll go back to nursing."

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So I consider it like a well-rounded life.

S.B.: Yeah absolutely. So where did you live at the beginning of November 2018?

E.A.: November? Yes, okay. I used to live in Sacramento. I owned a house there 00:02:00for like eight years. So at the end of 2016 me and the priest next to me in this huge church called [Paradise] Alliance Church that survived the fire, we move to Paradise on the same day. [laugh]

S.B.: Oh wow.

E.A.: So the next day, which was Christmas day, I moved here on the 24th of December 2016. I lived in Paradise for two years before the fire.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: But I just thought it was ironic that my daughter and I were in his pew--it's a non-denominational church, so I can't really say what religion--he's Christianity. But when he said that, my daughter and I were like in standup comedy we started laughing so hard [laugh]. And we go "We identified with your speech today." We just moved, we got a good night's sleep, and here we are.

S.B.: Oh that's really good.

E.A.: Yeah it was like a nice omen, and it was like somebody's going through exactly what we just went through. You don't want to move on Christmas Eve. It's the worst day to move, but it was the only day we had, yeah.

S.B.: Okay yeah.

E.A.: I'm never gonna do that again, you know? Yeah, whatever. [laugh]

S.B.: Okay. What did you do on Wednesday November the 7th?

E.A.: That was a regular Wednesday. Um--oh yeah I was off that day for some reason. The elections--we'd pretty much got a lot of stuff done. Voting day was Tuesday. So Wednesday it was like the low after the voting storm. Um--so I just had my time to just do everything in the middle of the week that I enjoyed, you know? Actually what happened, I bank at Bank of the West, and that's right there in Paradise. And they had some kind of electrical fires or something. So that by--that bank had been on fire earlier that--it's just crazy.

S.B.: Oh wow.

E.A.: It was a weird week. Monday--I don't know if other people are telling you, but Monday--across the street from me at the Save-Mart, a woman did the California scratcher, which is at $30 ticket. She won a million dollars on 00:04:00Monday. It--this is--I looked at that week, like a roller coaster week. But for me--you know-- Wednesday was just a mellow tranquil day, just to get like--business done, and -- [cross talk]

S.B.: Just like chores?

E.A.: Yeah. Cook a meal for the rest of the week, and stuff like that.

S.B.: Yeah, okay. So it was a normal kind of day. Did you have any plans for Thursday November the 8th?

E.A.: Beyond time, go to my county job. And then because I met a couple girls there that were friends, and it's just nice--you know--nice little--uh--community. I've lived in bigger cities, so for me it's like they're not grandiose plans, but it's just relaxing.

S.B.: Yeah, yeah. Okay.

E.A.: But that's it, go to work and--see work, we never know how long it's gonna last. They might have a whole bunch of ballots that you have to process, or they might not have that much at all, so.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: Because everything at that point was coming from the outlying areas. Little places that I've never visited like, Angels Camp. [laugh] I'm a native of 00:05:00California, but some of these rinky dinky little towns I'd never been there.

S.B.: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

E.A.: I just think that I'm lucky I have my lifetime to explore those other little town.

S.B.: Yeah, yeah. So what time did you arise on Thursday?

E.A.: Normal hours. I'm usually an early riser.

S.B.: Mm-hmm.

E.A.: I used to have a lot of East Coast friends because I'm usually like a little rooster around 5:00 am, 4:30[am]. 4:30[am] was my normal waking time without the clock.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: At that point I think I woke up around 5:30 or 6[am], out the door at about 7[am], at work at 8[am]. And I do believe the fire started at about 6:30[am]--um--in the town of Pulga. That's what they're saying, which for me Paradise is here, Pulga's way over here. I knew I smelt something--we knew that there was a little fire, but farmers out there are always burning stuff and you just think it's normal--you know--it's rural, but it's also farm life and a 00:06:00little bit of a city.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So I just go "Fine, they know what they're doing." And then I just continued on Clark Road, and that's how I drive into Oroville --

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: --the county seat for Butte County.

S.B.: Right. So how did you become aware of the fire?

E.A.: Um--

S.B.: Were you already up in about on your way-- [cross talk]

E.A.: --I'm like a news junkie, I love the news.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: I love BBC. I love Japanese news--I mean I'm watch news, but they weren't really talking about it that much. They just said, "We have a fire that broke out again--you know--like California, there's been so many fires Redding preceded us." And I thought, "They're gonna get it under control. That doesn't sound like more than a couple alarms. They'll get that under control." So I just went to work. And the people that rescued me at work, the people that really assess the situation, are people that have lived in this county for years. And they're smokers! [laugh] And they are out there puffing away looking at the plume, and meanwhile I was working on election stuff for just about 30 minutes 00:07:00or 20 minutes. And then they called us outside--it's a little group of people--they call me outside, and then they go, "Okay who lives in Paradise?" And I go, "Me." And they go like "Get like hell, get out of here. You get--you're excused, take care of your stuff. Get your stuff and get out there." And I thought, "Ooh those ladies put it in the fear God in me." I go, "I didn't think things were that bad." And I never saw a flame. I never ever saw a flame, and driving back home--back up Clark Road--um--now there's a roundabout there, but I drove up there went up the hill. Everything was clear, oxygen--beautiful everything. And then I got to my house, and--um--it's almost like everybody got the message and I didn't. Everybody was cleared out. Except one neighbor that's on the corner was there, and I looked at her face and it was like the look of terror. I go, "This must be much worse than I thought." You know what I mean? And I could hear things exploding like coming towards me. That's how I describe 00:08:00it, like Jurassic Park, like [makes sound effect]. I go, "What the hell was that? Was that a petroleum?" Because I don't have any of that, I'm so new to mobile home life. I'm always living in an apartment or a house.

S.B.: Mm-hmm.

E.A.: So things were exploding, and they were coming towards me. And then really fast the air was changing. I took a picture, and everything was now red, and my eyes were hurting, and I was driving a Volkswagen white bug. And the whole dashboard was like-- now soot and ash was in there. I had the windows down because I thought I could throw stuff in, but I had about a good 40 minutes to grab everything.

S.B.: Okay I want to slow down because--

E.A.: Yeah, sorry.

S.B.: --no that's totally great. [cross talk]

E.A: It gets that fast-paced when your there--

S.B.: Your adrenaline is pumping right?

E.A.: --just pure adrenaline.

S.B.: So where you were--where were you when you became aware of the fire? You're already in Oroville-- [cross talk]

E.A.: I was in Oroville looking at Paradise, like up on the hill.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: I'd seen the plume of smoke.

S.B.: And you-- [cross talk]

E.A.: That's how the women--I'm not--I've never been in a fire.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: That's what I'm saying. So the women--I love it, these county workers because I'm a three county worker employee. I worked for the County of San Mateo, the County of Sacramento, and now the county of Butte.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And I just go by these veterans--that's what I call them--they've been doing that county job for 15, 20, 30 years.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: And they've been living in that county for so long through so many evacuations. I put myself in their hands--you know--of experienced people. [laugh] And they're smoking, and then I just think it's cute. I hang out with the smokers and I am a nonsmoker, but they have an attitude. And it's kind of a little tough attitude. And it's a little defined against society a little bit, because they're supposed to smoke 25, 30 feet, who knows where, but these women were right there, and they were going, "That's bad." And they know.

S.B.: Mm-hmm.

E.A.: And so I just go, "Okay, fine." And I left--I left with my name tag on. And I was just a weird little nerd where I'm like, "Somehow I have to get back 00:10:00there, and give them the name tag. They're really weird about security." And I did later on that day-- that was on my rounds.

S.B.: Okay, s-- [cross talk]

E.A.: Gives them the name tag and come home.

S.B.: --so wouldn't--you knew there was a fire, but you thought it was far enough away, it's not going to affect you?

E.A.: Yes, Pulga who the hell has heard of that town?

S.B.: Right, yeah.

E.A.: I've never been there, they never have anything to do with me.

S.B.: So the catalyst for your evacuation was these--this group of county workers--

E.A.: Smokers, yeah. [cross talk]

S.B.: --who are smokers, and--um--how much time between the time you became aware of the fire, and then the time you evacuated?

E.A.: [inaudible] go back-- [cross talk]

S.B.: So you were in Oroville, you went back to your home and Paradise-- [cross talk]

E.A.: [inaudible] to Paradise, yes.

S.B.: And how much time before you got out of Paradise? Because it sounds like you were at work early.

E.A.: I had a lot of time--didn't I--to get stuff, yeah--and assess. And I wasn't scared because I didn't see--oh I know what I started to see--the roads were blocked. You could not go more east. You couldn't go up there like--what's that town? Grid--no it's not Gridley. It's a town that--Quince--Quincy?

S.B.: Quincy.

E.A.: Yeah. I'm sorry, Quincy has a whole bunch of people that are addicted to opioids, that's how I know it. Otherwise I don't need to go there. And there's a lot of seniors up there.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: But anyway, the roads were blocked to go to Quincy and those other areas going east. So I thought, "Okay that's something, wow. It's starting to get more serious."

S.B.: And that was something you noticed on the way in the back?

E.A.: On the way back, yeah.

S.B.: And did you see first responders blocking the roads?

E.A.: I was going with them!

S.B.: Oh you were going with first responders?

E.A.: [laugh] We were all heading towards the fire.

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: Shoot. I mean, I--I totally respect them. The police officers and the firemen. That's what makes me cry [voice breaks].

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: Because when I was coming out they were all like waving you out, and they had no masks. And I had my 95 mask, just--just one just for me on the dashboard which we didn't need the air was so nice right in that moment in time right then. But anyway, when I was heading out I just rolled down my window, and gave 00:12:00my mask to whoever I found. I don't know if it was a man or a woman, but I thought "You need it because you're in here breathing in this crap, and your eyes--your eyes are just so wrecked." You know? [blows nose into tissue]

S.B.: I'm sorry.

E.A.: As I was going through once again, I didn't see any flames. I just saw this big bellowing smoky thing. That's starting to come towards Paradise.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: You know? So I thought, "Okay then it's gonna be more alarm, so they're going to get it under control and all that."

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: They always do.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: That's my history with fires and earthquakes.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: Not anything like this. But anyway, so I came back up Clark--the back way to Paradise--it's all been redone, it's really safe. [I] got up there, and still there's no panic. There's no chaos or anything like that. Because I'm coming up the back way, I'm not coming up Skyway, or--what's that other? Neal?

S.B.: Neal.

E.A.: I discovered Neal during this. I never ever used that road in my life, and that road saved my life. But anyway [I] got back to my unit, then I started noticing on Clark--as you get towards town--then people are coming out. Big 00:13:00giant Winnebagos

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: People grabbed their Winnebagos, and they were living in them, and they came out. They were coming out slowly like a caravan.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: And then I had to wait a little bit to get into my thing, because the caravan--they'd let me in. Everybody was being polite. Everybody had manners. It was just like the San Francisco earthquake. That's what I like, I like when we bring that out in human beings.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So I got into there, and I noticed--oh my manager was still there. He goes, "Liz, I'm getting people out. Are you alright?" I go, "Yeah I was at work. I'm gonna try and grab belongings, and grab my cat and dog. And I'm going to be out here. What do you see? I'm not spending that long [here]." And his--his -- I forgot his name, whatever. Anyway, so I got in there, I went into my house, and I tried to do something--I don't know, I thought it was smart. I got my hose, and I wet it down like three-fourths of my walls, and the fence, and the--uh--storage room. I thought, "Maybe, I might do something." One lady told me she had a sprinkler on top of her house and her house survived.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: So, I tried that.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I got my cat, threw her in a carrier, and put her in the Volkswagen in the front seat. Um--my little pug dog, he's just obedient looking at me like, "What the hell's going on?" [laugh]

S.B.: [laugh] Oh dear.

E.A.: And then what saved me is, I got big giant blue Ikea bags. They're wonderful, they're fast, they're cheap, they're big. And I threw photo albums after photo albums in there, and I put all of those in the trunk of the car. I wish I got more jackets and beautiful things that I made--I love to sew--but I couldn't. I had what I was wearing, I had my shoes that were comfortable, I grabbed a jacket--you know--you're just not thinking about stuff.

S.B.: Right, did you have an evacuation plan?

E.A.: No! I had flashlights by the door--there's power outages up there-- [cross talk]

S.B.: Right, yeah.

E.A.:--but that's about it.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But I didn't have a plan.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: But I grabbed income tax, passports, --

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: --um--university degrees off the wall. I just wish I got--the only thing I regret is more pictures of my grandmother and grandfather. Because she's Russian 00:15:00redhead, and she had a picture of her in a hula skirt. I mean out of--out of Siberia, and she went to Shanghai. And she went to this studio, and took this wild picture. And I go, "That's the women in the family, that's the spirit. And then I thought, "Well, I don't need a picture to--you know--identify myself that's already in my mind." I've already lived it--

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: --I continue to live it. But it's like I will find an artist and give them a picture of her, and try to do a rendition of that. I will try to do that.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I think I can.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: I bet somebody's a good artist. But that's my only regret that I didn't get certain pictures. But I'm really thorough. I got to do my income tax wrote easy this year because I still had everything.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And even [my] resume. I got that because I go--I need to do this you know?

S.B.: Wow. So you had stuff in your mind and thought, "This is important --

E.A.: Yeah. [cross talk]

S.B.: I've gotta get it."

E.A.: [inaudible] stupid crap--actually I'm 57 and I take no meds, so don't even 00:16:00need to go in the bathroom. Don't need it, you know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Healthy person.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: So--uh--you had animals and what--

S.B.: They both survived. [cross talk]

S.B.: --what was their behavior?

E.A.: The cat and the dog--

S.B.: They were both just-- [cross talk]

E.A.: -- the cat's just mellow like, "Don't you dare put me in that damn carrier." I'm like [laugh]-- here, but she's a problem. I had to go through the bed and throw the bad over and everything. And I go, "When I come home, I'm gonna have to fix up that house." It was so messy chasing that cat around trying to save her you know? But the dog is so--you know--complacent lovely little boy. He's 10, they're both seniors.

S.B.: What's--what's your cat's name?

E.A.: Uh--well she doesn't really have a name.

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: She--I call her Barbra Streisand because she has [laugh] piercing blue eyes and a long nose, and she just looks at you.

S.B.: Okay, and your dog?

E.A.: But I'm not brave enough to say that at the veterinarian place, so she really doesn't have a name.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: And the dog's name is Charlie. He has a more--my daughter named him.

S.B.: Aww, that's --

E.A.: He's a pug.

S.B.: Yeah, that's a great breed.

E.A.: So, I probably look like him. [laugh]

S.B.: Oh [laugh]

E.A.: All the owners, they look like their dogs.

S.B.: I heard that.

E.A.: So I do think I look like that pug when I--when I really smile.

S.B.: Okay

E.A.: [laugh] I don't know.

S.B.: Um--

E.A.: That's what I'm saying, I always have this humor. I always have this healthy strong--you know--little--uh--survivor personality, and it came--I worked in the emergency room when I worked for San Mateo County.

S.B.: Mm-hmm.

E.A.: I speak Spanish fluently, I translate it in the emergency room. People had bones gashed out with their legs, and stuff like that.

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: You still gotta ask for insurance.

S.B.: Yeah, oh geez.

E.A.: [laugh] That's a bad--that's a bad joke, but that is true.

S.B.: How did you feel about leaving your home?

E.A.: I just felt like I was coming back. I didn't feel like I was leaving it forever--you know what I mean?

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: Not at all. Because if I felt forever I would have got more of the beautiful sewing that I did. That--that's irreplaceable. I cannot get that fabric again. I cannot get that pattern again. And some of those sewing projects to 5-6 years to complete because I was so busy you know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: That you--when you complete them, it's like a wedding dress. It's like 00:18:00geez, you know?

S.B.: A masterpiece.

E.A.: So whatever, that's some of the stuff that I wish I got, yeah.

S.B.: Yeah. When you finally got a chance to get everything packed--m--what--did you see on your street when you were--

E.A.: Desolation, everybody was gone.

S.B.: Everybody was gone.

E.A.: But everybody but my other neighbor across the street. And I thought about the neighbors on the corner, "You've been here longer than me. Don't you realize when you see that car there that means that man is in his house?" And I'm like, "Oh no, I'm not going to take no for an answer." So I went over there, and I was pounding on his window and pounding on his door. And then pounding on his window and looking-- trying to look in the window, and then yelling, "You better get out, because this is a really bad fire." Then I just thought, "Okay let me go take care of my stuff, but I'm gonna come over here and pound again."

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: So I went over again and I was almost done, and then I came back. But -- but before that then he came and opened the door.

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: And then he came out. And then he just looked around real quick like "Oh holy oh." And then he just drove away, because he was a man of little words 00:19:00anyway. He was actually like a kind of a big rig type of person that I know--the lady that owns that place, and she doesn't live there. That's like her little holiday thing, and they have strict rules that you can't rent it out. But he's like the one year handyman. He's smart--he always has like lumber hanging out of his car, and then he just drives in like he's working on something. But how can you work on a one-bedroom unit for a year? I go, "He's just living there it's okay, I understand what's going on."

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: Okay and so--

E.A.: So he was nice enough. [cross talk]

S.B.: -- he was just there--

E.A.: I'm just saying--

S.B.: --Yeah.

E.A.: --but he needed to get out there, you know?

S.B.: Everybody did, yeah.

E.A.: And then I could see the whole thing was empty. Except there might've been some abandoned animals, that's the only sad thing.

S.B.: So how long do you think it took you to pack everything up and get on the road?

E.A.: It's hard because that's a blur. It's that fight or flight, and I was like, "Man, flight mode." I'm already full of energy, you know? But I'd say I was there 40 minutes because I watered, and then I got the stuff, looked at the 00:20:00walls--wish I grabbed more, but I grabbed what I grabbed--and important papers. But then under the--under the FEMA roof, I didn't realize I could get a lot of that replaced you know? And I did.

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: Later on.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But anyway, I grabbed as much as I could grab. I'd say I was there about 40 minutes, maybe 45. The maximum would be 50, because I even took time off to go get him [the neighbor]. And he got out. And that's what I'm most happy about [voice breaks] that that man--

S.B.: That he made it?

E.A.: --that man's alive.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I don't know what he's doing, I don't even know his name. I don't even know the car he drove, some kinda big trucky Nova thing--some older--you know? A lot of people up there didn't have that much money.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And actually, the lifestyle--some of the seniors--first time I was like a little pissed off because I go, "How could you not have any gas? Where's your brain?" You know, that's one thing you asked me about the day before. What I did is, I filled up with gas at one of the Indian casinos coming home because the 00:21:00gas is so much cheaper.

S.B.: Mm-hmm.

E.A.: I filled up--that's me--I'm always at half a tank or fuller. And if I have any advice to anybody living in California with all the fires--and perhaps an earthquake [knocks on table] coming soon, maybe next year we don't know--have a half a tank of gas. Because if you're trying to be evacuated, you need gas to get out of town. Everybody was relying on those gas stations, and all of them were like fully for the woods. No, not one gas station was open, and I wouldn't expect them to be open you know what I mean?

S.B.: Yeah, yeah.

E.A.: The humor story that I think I talked about briefly with you--maybe not, maybe other people--but when we were coming down--when you're coming down Skyway it's only two lanes right? But what they did is, they made it like "Get out of dodge," so they made it like four lanes coming down with rescue people volunteers on the side flagging you down, and saying either go down Skyway or go down Neal. I don't know what the hell Neal was. I never went down that street. I 00:22:00don't know anybody down there.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: But I went down Neal. I said the best personality to have was be--be compla--not complacent--be where you go along with whatever the hell they're talking about because they know more than you do. It got to be where there were renegades trying to cut off--it's a two lane road once again on Neal--

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: --and one lane to come down, with me and the Volkswagen, and big giant Winnebago's, and people coming up. That--those were the first people that tried to save us, but some of these people are--that's why they live out there in the boonies, they want to do their own thing. It's that state of Jefferson kind of mentality, but some of them were jumping into that lane, and then being pushed over to the weeds. Because the fire trucks and the highway patrolman were coming up.

S.B.: Right yeah, first responders.

E.A.: I know it's a sign like in life, that's a message.

S.B.: Hmm.

E.A.: Listen to the people that have gone through emergency training. I also did for the hospital, but it was nothing on that level.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But I notice that behavior, and it was getting worse because I guess those 00:23:00were some of the people that waited last minute.

S.B.: Hmm.

E.A.: Like oh [inaudible] you know?

S.B.: So who was with you when you left? You had--

E.A.: Me and the animals.

S.B.: --you and your two animals. And your--your route to exit was off of Clark, --

E.A.: Um-- it was Clark -- [cross talk]

S.B.: --can you tell me what streets you took?

E.A.: Well first Clark--oh I know what I was trying to do--I came down right passed this chocolate store. Is that on some street that starts with a B? See how it is where you live-- [cross talk]

S.B.: Billie?

E.A.: --and you don't remember. Bille? Yeah, okay. I came down Bille right past the chocolate store trying to go to my bank, because I go, "I need to make a little bit of a withdrawal."

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And the bank--you know--and then with all the chaos I go, "Oh hell no, it's in Chico I could wait. I don't have to do this Paradise." So [I] just followed the the whole vagabond out. But the humorous thing that I thought, was when finally I got diverted from Skyway where the man was--and some people weren't listening to him. They still wanted to go down Skyway. You can't. That means too many cars, you're just going to be in a traffic jam. So by going down 00:24:00Neal it was clear--it was easy. It was just drive.

S.B.: Yeah. So you took--you took Bille to Clark--

E.A.: Bille? No.

S.B.: No.

E.A.: --Clark to Bille to Scott--left on Skyway. And then Skyway diverted to Neal. And Neal drops you off on Highway 99.

S.B.: Okay. Neal to 99.

E.A.: Yes.

S.B.: So you--you said something about chaos. What was that energy like when you said people were polite--

E.A.: Well-- [cross talk]

S.B.: --and they let you in at one point?

E.A.: --the chaos started--I'm gonna say it started--well it would have started if I knew that that man died. But he didn't die because I made sure he didn't. So that got diverted, but when I came out of my long drive past the [Paradise] Alliance Church that's when I saw the cars like that.

S.B.: Like a row of cars?

E.A.: And I go-- I had to be a little more sorted but-- "Can you let me in?!" [laugh] Because they didn't want to let you in, and I go, "You need to let me in" you know? I'll be like a little New Yorker if I have to, you know? [laugh] The shorter I get the more little assertive I get it's just what happens with 00:25:00short people.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: [laugh] But anyway they let me in, and I only stayed with them until the corner and then I went down Bille.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: Because that would have been if you go out of town--Clark--I don't like that way because that's the way the fire was coming. I think all of those people needed to be diverted over to the right, you know?

S.B.: Yeah so you went down Bille at that point?

E.A.: Yes I did. It was good timing, and I do feel like I had a guardian angel. I'm saying I do believe in that, really.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And I do believe in God more after this. And I really believe that relatives were helping me, I cannot help it. So many times in life like in the past, my dad passed away. He died of a massive heart attack at 67--fast. And what happened is I was living in Oregon washing dishes, and over here to my right I saw his face. If this didn't happen to me I can't talk about it, and I'm a very pragmatic person you know? But I didn't even look at him I just go, "Dad, out of the blue, what is it?" You know? Like--but we weren't talking it was all 00:26:00like mind. And so he said, "Don't worry about me, I'm okay. Don't worry about me." And I go, "I really wasn't thinking about you." [laugh] And about 20 minutes later my mom called me and said, "Sit down I have something to tell you." And then she told me about the heart attack. And I go, "Mom stuff like that happens to me all the time." People tell me I'm really lucky. The year before, I won $10,700 at the--um-- Thunder Valley casino. I constantly win. This year so far I've won $2,000 dollars. It's just, if you put yourself in some situations sometimes it's going to happen to you.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: That's why I mentioned that lady that $100 million on Monday, you still have to wait eight weeks to get that money. But I go, "She just went through a disaster, but she can rebuild." People were laughing at me. They go, "Yeah here's a millionaire." And I go, "Okay fine, but that is something that happened the week of the fire I'm just letting you know."

S.B.: Yeah, yeah.

E.A.: I talk to the other people from Paradise, and I'm different from them. I 00:27:00really am. Because some of them were kind of gloom and doom, and--you know-- and it's sad some of them already had mental health problems before this started.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: So then it's just more severe. And I don't know if they're ever going to get better. I do hope they--I'm a hopeful person, and I do hope they do.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But I don't know.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: They were on meds, they were on this, they were on that.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: My neighbors next to me, they spent all their money re--re--refurbishing this old mobile home that's not worth the metal. It's made--I'm sorry, mine was like that too. And that's why I'm really glad FEMA bought it you know? And I have nothing but good things to say about FEMA.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: FEMA looks like you and me. FEMA is full of nationalities. I--I must have met FEMA representatives 15 times--like over the phone, in person. I just went down--like I remember my teachers telling me, "No question is a dumb question."

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: So I would just go down there for emotional support, and just talk with the guys, have a glass of water, hug the security people--

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: --that aren't even FEMA, but they're just sweet--you know--see all the dogs. Everybody wouldn't leave their dog in the car. It's just different attitude that you would see during a disaster.

S.B.: Yeah. Well--okay, so let's--let's go back. You talked about feeling like you've had a guardian angel--

E.A.: Absolutely. [cross talk]

S.B.: --one aspect of that was that--

E.A.: Well, that day. [cross talk]

S.B.: --the people would let you in--

E.A.: Especially that day.

S.B.: --and you--but you also said you advocated for yourself like, --

E.A.: Yeah. [cross talk]

S.B.: --"You're going to let me in."

E.A.: Yeah, you are.

S.B.: And I think that's--

E.A.: I got a little tiny car. I'm not driving another he-man jeep, but it doesn't matter.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I had the he-man mentality in this little Volkswagen.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: [laugh] That's true.

S.B.: Yeah. So you got--you got out--

E.A.: I don't know, I attract that type of man--I attract the type of guy that doesn't like people and that wants to be in the wilderness. I'm like--"Why are--you attract the opposite." I go, "I love people. I love coffee shops. I like to mingle. I don't want to be with the Yule Gibbons in the wilderness.

S.B.: [laugh]

E.A.: You know what I'm saying? But that's the type of people I attract.

S.B.: Yule Gibbons [laugh], I think that's--

E.A.: It's the way I describe it.

S.B.: Ok.

E.A.: We're going to eat some bark like something like that. Anyway--

S.B.: [laugh] Okay so what was going through your mind during the evacuation during your route to exit in the car?

E.A.: Well that's my first ever--like that. So I just thought to myself, "Just cooperate. These guys know what they're doing."

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: I've seen so many fire trucks from all over--

S.B.: Right. [cross talk]

E.A.: --Oregon, Idaho. I go, "God it's a geography lesson just trying to get all day long-- just trying to move on down Highway 99."

S.B.: Right. So did you meet any first responders during your exit route?

E.A.: I met the person I gave my mask too, but I can't remember if that was a man or a woman.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: With what happened--real fast, like I describe it--Armageddon. Because first it was a beautiful clear sunny California day.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: Even as I went to work and I came back, still clear beautiful. But right away dramatically when I was up there at my mobile home I took--the picture I took, everything's red everything's glaring almost like you're on Mars.

S.B.: Would you share that with me?

E.A.: Yeah, yeah. Let me see where my phone is.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: I'll show you. I have videos--I did videos as I was leaving.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Because my first major in school was photojournalism.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: Well I thought I'm documenting this.

S.B.: So you have an eye? Yeah.

E.A.: I go, "Someday someone's going to--you know--interview this little 90-year old spunky lady, and I'm going to tell them all about it.

S.B.: Yeah. Oh, well that's cool. Um--so, what support or assistance did you get to aid you and your evacuation?

E.A.: Um--well I just remembered that I had those Ikea bags, and I go, "I can carry a lot of merchandise." Because the thing is I moved with those Ikea bags.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And I would never give it back because I go, "I know I need them, they're smart." I think I went back in the storage, and I got those--

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: --right away because I go, "I need--" and the pet carrier. Um--and then I started watering--you know--which to no avail--

S.B.: B ut-- [cross talk]

E.A.: --but it's all like a [unintelligible].

S.B.: So people let you in though, and that's assistance.

E.A.: They did, but that was hesitant.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: They were in survival mode.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: I understand, and they were coming from Magalia--that's the direction of Magalia coming out.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And they must've saw much worse stuff that I saw. Because even at that 00:31:00point I never saw flame.

S.B.: Never.

E.A.: I--just the air was red, my eyes hurted. I wish I had my little mask--I didn't have it. And then the thing is I heard explosions coming from--the ocean--so they were coming from the west, which was crazy though because the fire started in the East. So I don't know. I have a feeling--I saw what burned down later. This liquor store burned down--um--and the bank was already gone--remember that burnt from the electrical thing?

S.B.: Oh yeah.

E.A.: So the bank was already burned, but it was coming up from the senior--it's a--the senior park behind me that a lot of those people didn't have transportation. I think it was a lot of dead bodies back there.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Because now they said that they found people if they couldn't go by dental records or fingerprints, they went by--like--pacemakers and hip replacements. Because they all have an id on them.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: it's just sad. I just keep reading more and more about it and going, [pause] you know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So anyway, the explosions were coming from the senior park coming towards 00:32:00my house like that. And that scared-- [cross talk]

S.B.: The propane tanks?

E.A.: Yeah. I go, "I don't know what that--I just--that's making me go faster. The closer it's getting, I gotta get out of here."

S.B.: As soon as you could, you got your stuff in your car--

E.A.: As much as I could. [cross talk]

S.B.: --but you said you never saw flames?

E.A.: I never saw a flame. I only saw the flames when I was coming down Neal because what happened is, beautiful day because of all the flames and soot in the air--day turned into night. That should be a quote that everybody says, because all of a sudden I go with the lights on I go, "What's that too?" When you're coming down Neal, and you're coming out of your town, and you're looking towards the right-- beautiful expensive houses in the hills--you could see all the black, and then you could see the ridge of flames. That's what's coming from Pulga.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: And that's what came down that canyon. And maybe for the canyon, it gave me a little more time to get stuff done.

S.B.: Maybe.

E.A.: It was all black--charred, you know? Most of the Chico hills--as you drive in here--were all charred. It looked like something from the moon--lunar, and 00:33:00they know right away aesthetics are important to people. So I know what the firemen did. They put down fast growing seed, so then all of a sudden--you know-- the next rain came in about--what--two weeks? And then it all started turning green.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But the scars and the emotional stuff is still there, you know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And the poor animals.

S.B.: Yeah. Well, okay I want to--I want to know did you see any friends or anyone that you knew during your evacuation drive?

E.A.: Only a look of terror on that girls face, and--um--nobody else.

S.B.: No?

E.A.: The church was emptied--everything.

S.B.: Yeah. Um--did you--

E.A.: But the one thing--one visual that I do remember that just shows you the spunkiness of the people that live here. Uh--this one man grabbed whatever he could grab to get out of dodge, and he grabbed a moped. And he was on there--a big guy on a moped with the butt hanging out, and the butt crack--like you know how there's butt crack jokes--but I go [laugh]--I go-- and I go I look around at 00:34:00the people in front back I go, "Does anybody notice him?". And he's just going and passing everybody. And I go, "All you have to do sir is get to the ridge, and then you can glide on down with your little bike. And you were smart enough to get on that thing and make it run."

S.B.: Right

E.A.: Good for him.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: [laugh]

S.B.: Yeah, that's ingenuity.

E.A.: I don't know, you've talked to other people--I don't know if anybody mentions the butt crack moped guy.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: [laugh]

S.B.: Okay [laugh]. Did you face any obstacles?

E.A.: I should have high-fived him as he went by.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I thought he was great.

S.B.: That's good! Did you face any obstacles or barriers? No? You made it out--

E.A.: I just looked at my animals once in a while, "Are you guys [okay]?" I brought food, I brought water bowls, you know?

S.B.: Yeah. So how long did it take for you to get clear of the fire area from your original point of evacuation?

E.A.: It's hard to say that though, because as you're going all of that smoke terrible junk is going to Chico.

S.B.: Yeah, and you were going to Chico?

E.A.: I had to go there because--

S.B.: What--what was your motivation to go?

E.A.: Well, I worked for a nice Hispanic woman that I just love, and I'll 00:35:00probably work for her again. And I called her right away because I always just know--[laugh-- [unintelligible] some money, and I have to really be in the real world.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And so I called her right away and she goes, "Oh Liz that's right, you live in Paradise." And I go, [unintelligible] I don't know." And she--and today's payday--and she goes, "Okay Liz--Liz--Liz, we're not going to put your check in the batch process. You got me early enough." I called her about 9:30 or 10[am]

S.B.: 9:30[am]?

E.A.: Yeah. And she goes, "Okay come over here--like, yeah everything's possible--make your way over here." And I go, "That's my call." And then she goes, "I will hand you your check. We usually don't do that, but this circumstance of course we're going to do that."

S.B.: Right. So did you call her in the car or at your house?

E.A.: This is a good question. I'm so always mobile with--you know--like the Millennials, it's glued to my hands.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I know I wouldn't call her when I'm in the car, 'cuz I want to feel comfortable driving.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: And it's against the law, but I think I called her because it was just bumper-to-bumper traffic.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I think I was coming down--coming down Neal.

S.B.: Okay. Wow, that's very thoughtful.

E.A.: I'm just really logical.

S.B.: Yeah. So you knew you were going--

E.A.: Yup.

S.B.: --to Chico -- [cross talk]

E.A.: I was going to Chico [laugh]--

S.B.: --is that where you went--

E.A.: --with the animals.

S.B.: --immediately after you evacuated?

E.A.: Absolutely.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: Um--and when you got your check, what was your feeling?

E.A.: Then I went to the bank [laugh]--.

S.B.: [laugh] Yes, okay.

E.A.: --which was on the Raley's.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: Which is on East over there.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: And that was sad, and then I started meeting some of these survivors. And it's ironic. I met this woman named Joy, and I go, [voice breaks] "Well that just shows me how my life's gonna go. That's like an omen."

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: That's how I look at it, like everything was an omen. Because I go, [voice breaks] "It just has to be okay, and it has to get better because I just met Joy." You know?

S.B.: Yeah, yeah.

E.A.: And so I exchanged numbers with her, and she--she was thinking much more of the gravity. She came from a really expensive house. She goes, Eh, yeah we 00:37:00have insurance but,"-- she goes--"I just don't know." And I go, "I had no idea." I go, "I never saw a flame until I came out, then I saw a flame on the mountains." And actually it reminded me of lava like from Hawaii--like lava coming down, because everything was black. And then this--this ridge was all on fire.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: And it was on fire on the other side, and it was far behind us. So that's three--I go, "The only place to go straight down to Chico." That's the video I made. I go, "I'm driving towards the light. I'm driving towards safety." You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But--um--

S.B.: Let's--

E.A.: -- I met Joy in the parking lot, and it made me feel good.

S.B.: Yeah. Where did you go after you went to Raley's?

E.A.: Well the bank people were being really nice 'cuz they know it's a disaster by then, they're listening to the news.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: [to herself] Was I listening to news? I don't know. Usually you'd think I am, but I'm just going to listen to music because I might have said, "What are they going to tell me? I'm living it." You know what I mean?

S.B.: Yeah

E.A.: So I'm not sure. I might--I might've had it off because I just wanted to 00:38:00see what was going on around me.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: I don't remember any news footage at all.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: There was a TV stolen. I can't even remember that.

S.B.: So when you got to Raley's--

E.A.: Lights were on so I had power.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But I don't I think I felt like--I didn't have time to focus on a TV. [cross talk] [inaudible]

S.B.: Right. You were evacuating, yeah. So where did you go that first night?

E.A.: Uh-- that's hard. I'm trying to remember--Raley's, I met Joy, and then I got money whatever--the nice guy--nice millennials. See, I go by age groups. He was a sweetheart. He didn't have to help me, but I was--I guess I looked a little shaky and he goes, "I'll help you. You're from Paradise? Oh we understand," and all that. And not just the Chico people that I love that are nice. So he helped me, and then I'm like a nerd--I told you--I looked down and I go, "[gasp] my name tag's on me."

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: They have such a rule about that, I cannot be out of the building without my name tag. [laugh] So, I drove back to Oroville --that's on the way to get to 00:39:00Sacramento was my goal.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: And so I drove back to Oroville, and meanwhile then--then I saw urgency too, because then I was this--this road was moving. I was on 99 going past the fairgrounds--

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: --and the fairgrounds were loaded with people. They were even--but there was a line trying to get to that exit to get there. And so that--you know trying--to get into Chico was insane. I mean--whatever--so I just kept on going, and I guess I noticed more things more fields on fire and stuff like that.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: But my goal was to get to the county elections. [laugh] So I got there--and this is actually humor and ironic--I got there, I went in--my animals are in the car--it's a warm kind of muggy terrible day. So windows are cracked, and then I went in there and I said, "Hey I have my name tag, and I'm turning it in." And they go, "Oh could you come back and work a little bit?" And I go, "Jesus Christ, -- [laugh]

S.B.: [laugh]

E.A.: --what a question. Does she know I lived in Paradise?" But then I hugged the lady that was the--she's a supervisor, and she made me go. But she has this personality--sorry--anti-social, and not very loving. But I go, "I'm gonna [expletive] hug you no matter what, because you did helped save my life." You know? And I don't know--she goes, "Are you gonna be back here tomorrow?" I go, "I don't know about tomorrow!"

S.B.: [laugh]

E.A.: I gotta figure out where I'm going to sleep tonight." Don't be that logical with me, I have to say no. [laugh]

S.B.: Oh my God.

E.A.: Whatever. But she's just difficult personality. She works with herself--by herself. That's why.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: Because she doesn't work well with others. It's okay. She saved my life, I'm happy.

S.B.: Okay. I'm going to say let's take a break--

E.A.: [laugh]

S.B.: --really quick.

E.A.: Okay.

S.B.: I'm going to run to the restroom.

E.A.: Okay I'm going to try and find you.

S.B.: Okay that'd be great.

E.A.: I have video info.

S.B.: You're good on water?

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: Okay, great. I'll be right back.

E.A.: [mumbling] Oh let's see. [inaudible]. Oh, okay. [to herself] What's this picture? Well it's the first night--the first night. Is that the Motel six or the Airbnb? It was Thursday, that might have been my ex-boyfriend's house. Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and then get out of there Sunday, yeah. Hi.

S.B.: [comes back in from bathroom break] Hello.

E.A.: Hello. Yeah I did remember the first night where I stayed, yeah. I had to really think back.

S.B.: Okay. Well so we've just been talking a lot about evacuation. And I wanted 00:41:00to just make sure if, is there anything else that you want to share about your evacuation? It sounds like you're very spiritual person--

E.A.: [unintelligible]

S.B.: --and that you see-- [cross talk]

E.A.: [unintelligible]

S.B.: --that you see things--

E.A.: I do.

S.B.: --and you take--uh--

E.A.: --and I don't have to have society agree with me.

S.B.: --faith in them. And I--I think that's really-- [cross talk]

E.A.: I think I'm a little bit psychic. I know I am.

S.B.: That's powerful.

E.A.: Because--I mean--my father--I go, "That was like night and day." It happened. It's not like I imagined it, mental health problems--hell no. I take no meds at all.

S.B.: You had a feeling.

E.A.: That--I saw him! He's right here.

S.B.: Yeah, yeah.

E.A.: Just like I'm looking at you he's right--his face is right here. Bigger--just a face, and I'm not [laugh] on good relations with him because he's not a really nice man. He knows. If he made it to Heaven he probably is with the other relatives, and they're chastising him saying "You could have been a nicer person when you were on Earth." I do believe that there are people like that, of course.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I'm a realist, but it's like he--I thought that it was nice that he did 00:42:00tell me, "Relax. So you're going to hear some stuff in my mind." I went right away.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: So did you--did you have moments where you would pray over the course of your evacuation?

E.A.: I didn't have time to pray [laugh].

S.B.: You were so busy. Just--

E.A.: I didn't have time to pray, but as I--as I left--as I made my videos--one video there was animals, there was horses coming down. There was goats coming down.

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: And I go, "This reminds me of Noah's Ark where there are two by two and all of the religious stuff." And like driving towards the light--towards the light that's just the kind of life I live. I don't have to preach. I just do the right thing, and to me being a suicide prevention counselor, I don't know how many people I helped. Sometimes people called and they just read poetry--poetry to me and then I--they just want to bounce it off to someone. Any kind of call, I don't mind. All types of callers came through.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And I just believe in karma the--like in Indian philosophy.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And I just believe--like--what I put out I could get two or three times back. And I'm not trying to get anything back. And like in this community the Buddhists came, and this week--this weekend I guess I'll go pray with them. I've never done that, but they're asking people to come pray with them on Saturday and Sunday.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: I gotta find them, I didn't erase that. And I will go because they made a lot of sense. They're just--the founder of whatever organization she believes in helping people when they need it most, and they're just so wonderful. That gave me a blanket, and just mostly listening and looking at you in the eyes and holding your hands. And men, women--that's why when I do nursing I don't care who I help. Man, woman, couple, it doesn't matter.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Yeah. Some people are so fussy in nursing. They'll go, "Not nights, not weekends, not men." [laugh] I go, "You're choosing are really selective little group of people that you're going to help." But I'd go, "Everybody gets cancer. Everybody gets Parkinson's." You know? And some of those deaths that happened 00:44:00after the fire, with Anthony Bourdain and with also Robin Williams. Not that I think I walk on water, but I wish I could have been there and talked with Robin Williams. We'll show him pictures of his children. I would not have given up. I would've said, "You make so many people laugh, and we remember you, and we love you. And we don't want you to commit suicide." You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So, some of that stuff hurted me after the fire.

S.B.: Wow, yeah.

E.A.: Even Anthony Bourdain. Anybody dealing with demons for a long time, and being in France and having that last excellent meal, and then just deciding pack it up. And I'm like everybody has that choice. I don't want to take that away from anyone, but I just feel like if I talk to him and say, "You still have an 11 year old daughter who--you know--is she going to be a chef like you? Is she going to be a travel writer? Is she--what's she gonna do? Do you want to walk her down the aisle? You know what I mean. Don't end it. Don't just look at that 00:45:00wall right now. Think about there's several doors that you could choose, don't choose death you know? You don't have to."

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: That's just me. You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I try to be as optimistic as I can be.

S.B.: It sounds like it's helped you--

E.A.: It has.

S.B.: --and it's carried you through a lot.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I am the person in society that helps other people. That's why--when I see the responder and they're breathing in that smoke, and their eyes are so red, and my eyes are red because it's coming through the cracks and the ventilation system.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: That I don't hesitate to give away my mask. [Voice breaks] I wish I had more. I would've given away every single mask.

S.B.: How did you have an N95 mask at that point? Did you grab it from work?

E.A.: I had it because I'm smart. Yeah I think work gave them out. But that was hard, because I ended up in Sacramento for a little while. And one night with this nice woman we were going from fire station to fire station trying to get the 95 mask, and they go, "I'm so sorry we had to send them out of Butte County. 00:46:00We're totally out out out out." That's all we keep hearing.

S.B.: Wow okay.

E.A.: Then Butte County--they're all around there on the ground there. Just abundance everywhere. It's just wild to me.

S.B.: Yeah. So let's -- let's shift gears and we can talk about shelter now.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: So how did you find a place to sleep the first night of the fire?

E.A.: Well like I mentioned I just sold my house Sacramento.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: So I had a boyfriend that lived in Sacramento, but it's a touchy off and on again relationship. He has a very difficult personality [laugh] to say the least--Russian, he's a 100 present Russian. And I'm part Russian, and he found me by my photograph. It looked Russian to him, you know? And we dated for about five years, but--uh--we broke up because of the fire and because of his personality. I slept at his house Thursday night and Friday night, --

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: --and Saturday night.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: My daughter joined me for Saturday, and I think Friday she came as fast as 00:47:00she could. She lives in San Jose.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: She was a San Jose student at the time.

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: She just graduated. She's an occupational therapist now.

S.B.: Oh wow.

E.A.: She has her first job, and paying back her student loans and all that. I'm a hands-on Mom, roll up my sleeve, and kick ass. And I love raising children. I raise them with love and humor, and we travel all over California. But academics are really really important.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So anyway that's another separate thing.

S.B.: Okay, that's okay. But she--she came to see you?

E.A.: Saturday.

S.B.: Saturday.

E.A.: Yeah because he's difficult. He was only married for a couple of months. Way back, more than 20 years ago, maybe 30 years ago. He's much older than me. I'm 56 at the time, and he was 70 years old at the time.

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: But--and very good health, very good shape. You know? He could survive fire along with me. But the thing is just he has psychological problems. I would 00:48:00tell him I go, "If you would just get like a mild sedative I think we could make this work. You know? And you take it before we go on a vacation." Because he would get crazy on trips.

S.B.: Oh no.

E.A.: I mean--I'd get to go have a nice time, and he was just like a--like a spark--like--all of a sudden get mad about something. And I just go, "I'm just sitting here breathing in oxygen. I don't know what the problem is." You know?

S.B.: Yeah. Oh, so you had the opportunity to stay there but it was not ideal.

E.A.: I didn't want to.

S.B.: Yeah. So--so where did--what did you eat the first night?

E.A.: Oh, he's a great cook. [laugh]

S.B.: So did he make you food?

E.A.: Yes! He goes, "[fake Russian accent] What do you like my favorite?" You know? And I go, "Fish and the beautiful rice."

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: It all taste like garlic, it's really good.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: "No, don't worry about food nutrition shower," all that.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So what was the atmosphere like there? It sounds like it was uncomfortable because of--

S.B.: That's it, because he is the man on the block--every block in America has 00:49:00one. The man that the neighbors hate the most, but because I'm nice I seem to get along and be a smoother out of that personality.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: One neighbor has a restraining order against him. I'm just telling you about this guy is.

S.B.: Wow. It's why I slept there because it's like I know you, he knows me, and "[unintelligible] you know I'm a nice person." And I'm going, "I don't know that."

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: That guy--the judge gave him a restraining order. These guys on the other side are from Mexico, and they don't understand the--the court system yet. But I think they're on the verge of getting a restraining order against him.

S.B.: Holy moly.

E.A.: Whatever.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: It's not me. It's not a reflection of me, but--uh-- and he still had this dream that we were going to move to Lake County together. That's why the Lake County. We looked at real estate over there and blah blah blah. But I go the only way I can live with him, is if I have my own house and he has his own house back there somewhere. Not in the same dwelling because we just look at life a different way.

S.B.: It sounds like it, yeah.

E.A.: Well the redeeming factor of that man, is that for 17 years he brought his 00:50:00mother from Russia, and she lived with him. And he was her caregiver. And I go, 'Well Eric, God's going to look at that." [laugh] Not that I'm the judge and the jury, but I go, "[unintelligible] because you gave away 17 years of your life. --

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: --you didn't really date. You didn't get married again. You didn't have any kids. And--you know--you sacrifice--you did--you sacrifice for your mom." And I appreciate that, because so many Americans throw their relatives into a care home then they go, "She has the best whatever, now I'm doing my life.' And not really. I know, because I worked in those places. They are neglected, and each place I worked at I don't do that anymore because they're all sued. I go, "That just tells you. If you really like clients you're going to be independent like I am."

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And then work in the homes. I cannot do another skilled nursing. Even this one man died, and these nurses were doing something else. And then they all got together and said, 'What's our story?" It's just so goddamn illegal. And I just 00:51:00said, "I'm not on your side. I'm on the side of the family. Don't even ask me for my opinion." You know?

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: And I'm glad I didn't have to testify, because I would not ever support those RNs. Normally in society I look up to them like you have some kind of education, but morally some of the stuff they do is not good.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Whatever.

S.B.: So, okay--

E.A.: That's off topic.

S.B.: --that's okay. Tell me about where--where you stayed, and what you ate in the first weeks after the fire. It sounds like--

E.A.: Well, the very first night--I do have to give him a compliment even though the neighbors hate him, he is an excellent cook. Um--and that's what I like about that man, and he's a very good cook. So we ate well, and I did go to sleep. I managed to go to sleep, but we kept trying to listen to the news. And it was sad because news kept giving me hope. And I even saw footage of the fence outside my house that was still intact.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: So they said that the perimeter got burned, but the middle might've been okay--all this crap. And the whole town was demolished, and they just don't want 00:52:00to tell you right away.

S.B.: Right, yeah.

E.A.: But the church next to me had a lot of cement. The [Paradise] Alliance church didn't have any burning at all.

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: So I--I--you know--I was hopeful until the end.

S.B.: Yeah. So--so tell me about how long you stayed there?

E.A.: Well, it was sad. I have to mention a little more about that relationship. Because my daughter came Friday, and he loves my daughter and we were all blissed out having nice food. And--you know--even though his house--whatever--it got remodeled, but that was before the remodel. And then we slept there Friday night, and then we slept there Saturday. Then Sunday I started immediately looking for places to live because I go, "Yes I'm traumatized. I don't know how much I'm traumatized, but I got to have somewhere to live."

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: So I was interviewing landlords and places.

S.B.: In Sacramento?

E.A.: No, actually off of Highway Five in like Orland.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: And further south there's another one--they all start with W out there.

S.B.: Willows.

E.A.: Willows --thank you. I think it was Willows--yeah, and the rents are reasonable at that time because people were not getting mobile yet. But I always 00:53:00take action.

S.B.: You were on it.

E.A.: Like my daughter--

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: you know--teach her. And so anyway we went to look at an apartment over there. It was nice, and I think he was going to rent it to me. And then we stop for Mexican food--just relaxing, but then--my ex-boyfriend is called Arc or KD--

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: --anyway he starts getting kinda crazy. It's the mental health stuff. And anyway he starts saying, "You're supposed to look at a bed with me today," and all this. And I go, "You know what, a bed is the furthest thing from my mind. --

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: --I don't need a bed. You have a bed you have a couch. I don't care what I sleep on." You know? And he goes, this Russian man wants to give him some kind of a queen bed or whatever. And I go, "Arc, if it doesn't happen Sunday, it could be Monday. I'm looking for apartments, that's the most important thing to me right now." And he goes, [unintelligible] don't you know that you could live here with me." and I go, "I cannot live there in hell. That is hell. They hate him, they do blaring music, they throw things, you know? I go, "I--I--I worry about my car as it is. You know? I'm not gonna be able to stay there Arc--you 00:54:00know--whatever." Logically, as I try to be like that with him. But anyway, this was so sad. I had a very nice time my daughter. We got there at about three--I don't know--four, and I----I am--what takes the cake is that I had already gone to Home Depot the day before. I got myself a new vacuum because I started doing checklists of all the stuff I need.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: And then I had a--I got him a vacuum because he needed one--I'm just really nice and giving. And anyway, then what happened is I got into his house and then he started acting crazy. He started ranting and raving. And then he left the room and I go, "Maggie, see, I told you what he's like, look. She goes, "Mom I don't even know why I didn't want to look at his face. He's so mad." And I go "About what? What did I do? What cardinal sin--I'm trying to look for housing, we had a meal, he's acting fucking crazy--I'm sorry. And then I just go, Man, that's why I never could marry him. This is why--I can't live with him. You know? And then I just started getting my belongings. I go, "Maggie, 00:55:00evidently you know I'm not staying here tonight with that." You know? So then we started putting things in the car, and then I got my vacuum. Then he acted crazy, "Okay well take this vacuum too I don't want it." The Volkswagen's only so big. Anyway, I got everything all crazy all over the place--plus she has her Honda, it's bigger. So I can put stuff in hers. I go, "That was insane." So I just left. And I go, "That's sad. I'm homeless and he's kicking me out. I'm not going to ever forgive that. Because I'm really forgiving, I forgive anyone. I probably would forgive Hitler. If Hitler was just going to go do counseling and make amends to the Jews, I probably would forgive Hitler. I'm sorry, but I'm really forgiving. And then I just said, "Okay I don't know where I'm going to stay Maggie, but then I stayed in a Motel six in Rancho Cordova.

S.B.: Ok. So you had to change plans?

E.A.: Goddamn him.

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: [unintelligible].

S.B.: Yeah I'm sorry. I'm really sorry that happened.

E.A.: I know, I'm still mad. I kinda want to talk to him again, and I go, "Just think about when you were tossed out of his damn house." But he helped me the 00:56:00week before I got my house where I'm living now. I made him because I said, "I'm tired of going to strangers' houses so far away. I'm tired of hotel bills. Okay I'll go to Arc's house for a week--not a week, four days. I think you can keep it together for four days." Jesus Christ. I don't know what's going to happen.

S.B.: Did he behave?

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: Good.

E.A.: Because he felt bad about the other time. I don't care. I'm just like the karma that you are dishing out is so terrible.

S.B.: He sounds kinda controlling.

E.A.: He's really bad, yeah. And the wife--I go, "I don't even have to talk to your ex -wife. I'm already on her side." She was a beautiful French woman, cooked great. You know?

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: That's what he always tells me about her. And she wants nothing to do with him now. "I'm friends with my ex"-- I didn't tell you that. That's one thing that my ex--and with his--uh--with his sister Barbara--his name is Bob and she's Barbara, they live in Elk Grove. I didn't stay over there because I didn't feel comfortable. But I use their address as a mailing address.

S.B. Nice.

E.A.: That's really important.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But what she did that was so nice before FEMA helped me, she goes, "Liz, I usually don't have this." But she goes, "I have $20 thousand, and I'm not going to put it back in my savings account. I'm going to give it to you [voice breaks]. And I go, "God, you really make me feel part of the family even though I'm divorced from your brother." I go, "I'll never forget that" [voice breaks]. See, so sometimes the worst things happen, and sometimes the nicest things happen.

S.B.: Aww.

E.A.: And I never forgot that. And what that money right away--she's faster than FEMA. [laugh]

S.B.: Oh. [laugh]

E.A.: I go, "Barbara you're just amazing." And you know they're Methodist people,--

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: And their last name is Parsons. And that is important because Parsons means like a parson of a church, it has meaning. And these people are; they're not dishonest, they're just a nice family.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: It's just, I couldn't take her brother--living with him like a husband but as a friend. I met him at work. We got married on friendship day--August 00:58:00first--and I did that on purpose. Because I go, "Even though I'm may not be married to you Bob, I'm gonna try hard not to divorce. But if I'm not married to you we're still going to be friends." That's just my philosophy, and we are.

S.B.: Good.

E.A.: And the level headedness, and the friendship, we raised a nice girl that--she's in a relationship, and it's probably going to lead to marriage. You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So I think that's important.

S.B.: Wow that is a great gift.

E.A.: Yes she was amazing, but then it was really hard to cash the $20 thousand check. Because they look at you like, "You don't have a bank account with us." I go, "Jesus. Okay, Barbara can you help me? Can we go to the bank together?" You know?

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: Because I like--sometimes I feel like that when I have a $100 bill. If they don't have change, they can't accept your money.

S.B.: Right, yeah.

E.A.: So just a little difficulty cashing the check, but once I cashed it than I'd like--I could stay in hotels. I--the--the most important purchase I made is, I went to Wal-Mart maybe two Fridays after that, and I bought a jacket because I 00:59:00was so cold I just had like stupid flyaway sweaters would no buttons, and it was so cold. And I go, "This is ridiculous. I want my $20 Wal-Mart jacket." Even though I could have bought more expensive, I just have my eyes fixed on what I knew the merchandise that Wal-Mart had.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And I bought that jacket from some community way far away. Was it--Cameron Park? Because what happened is, my daughter was helping me on her cell phone giving me places to stay like Airbnb's.

S.B.: Oh yeah.

E.A.: And so I was staying at all of these Airbnb's and all these people were beautiful opening up their homes to me with no charge.

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: They were just saying, "Go in Liz the key's under the mat. Take a shower do the laundry--whatever you want." And just--you know--really sweet.

S.B.: That's really generous. So that was probably like what? The third or fourth week?

E.A.: It just kept going on.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But then--and I also supplemented that because sometimes there was nowhere, the Airbnb's were full. So sometimes I stayed in Red Bluff 01:00:00at--uh--uh--the Motel six. I talked to the manager from Arizona, I met so many people. I was at motels in--Oroville was all crowded because all these people they're just--they're little radius is just so small. And my radius, "I'll drive to another state." Nevada, or--you know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And that helped me because I look at distance in a different way.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I've lived all over the state of California.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Driving doesn't bother me.

S.B.: Cool. Yeah that's the true California spirit--

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: --is to drive. [laugh] Yeah, yeah.

E.A.: I don't have to stay in Oroville, I don't have to stay in Chico. God, actually I like getting away because the air was so bad here.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: The further I got away, the better it was.

S.B.: Right. And so we can talk about that in the air quality in Butte County.

E.A.: Yeah, it was bad.

S.B.: The air quality was measured by the EPA as the worst in the world--

E.A.: I was there.

S.B.: --during the month of November.

E.A.: It was like three NDS, yeah.

S.B.: So what was your experience of the air at that time? You--it sounds like--

E.A.: It was bad.

S.B.: --completely kept your distance.

E.A.: There was a little bit of lung damage, yeah. But that's the thing, I left 01:01:00but then I came back for camaraderie, and also to find out what I need to do.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Because for one of the lady's house in Sacramento, she was an Irish woman and I had gone to Ireland so I can talk with her. And she said that she was a super Airbnb person. They're like a category of above.

S.B.: Mm-hmm.

E.A.: And anyway she had a book of her--uh--travels and stuff like that.

S.B.: Uh-huh.

E.A.: So I just start looking through it and asking about her, really interested--that's like the journalistic part of me. And she goes, "Liz--you know--I've had so many people that stay here, and nobody asks about me."

S.B.: [laugh]

E.A.: And I go, "I find you interesting. I just love it." I go, "I don't want to focus on myself all the time. I go, "I know me, I'd rather find out about you." You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But she was really nice. I stayed at her house as long as I could, and then she had another person coming and she goes, "But you can come right back after that."

S.B.: Oh nice.

E.A.: And I just--I knew it, and then she'd knock on my door--like--with a cup of coffee. No wonder she was a super person, she was so nice.

S.B.: Yeah. So there was--

E.A.: Even more, she got the Mayor of Sacramento--the old mayor. What was her name? I forgot, but if you look up the mayors--it was a woman, and she loves cats. So I have cat socks, and cat this, and cat that. She gave me like a half a garage good of stuff but I have a Volkswagen.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I go, "I'm gonna have to come back because I can't take all that stuff."

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: The generosity of her neighbors, and--you know what it is? They're not the highest socioeconomic, but they're like upper middle-class, and everybody was donating everything to me. And it's like they all wanted help, and they found Liz. [laugh]

S.B.: [laugh] Oh yeah.

E.A.: So they were all giving me everything that they--baby clothes, everything--I have paper towels. I mean just--I just didn't have--you know--I still have my cat, and I took my little dog to Elk Grove by then because he hangs out with these other little dogs-- he's fine. You know.

S.B.: Yeah. How did--how did your animals--did they stay with you?

E.A.: The cat did, that's why I stayed at Motel 6s--

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: --because I can stay with the cat.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So--oh--and also it got to be where I did have her go to Elk Grove, but she was traumatized. Because they have like three dogs, and one of them is this big giant--I don't know what the hell--part pitbull. She was so scared.

S.B.: And that's your--your ex-husband sister's--

E.A.: Right. She's stayed in her-- [cross talk]

S.B.: --house?

E.A.: --closet.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: It's not her personality. She's just so loving with me, but she was hissing and she bit somebody, and she was really traumatized. The pug was fine. You know>

S.B.: Yeah, aww.

E.A.: But it's okay. I got her out of there, and the place where I moved--it's a senior place--and they said choose one animal.

S.B.: Hmm.

E.A.: And that's sad because I felt like Sophie's choice. Like God I rescued them, they're alive, I have to choose one so I chose the traumatized cat.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And the pug is still in Elk Grove.

S.B.: So when did you get a chance to move? 'Cause it sounds like you started looking right away--

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: --for a new place to live.

E.A.: The move--I moved into my house, I signed papers and everything. I bought 01:04:00a decrepit ugly duckling, 1-bedroom mobile home.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: But now it looks beautiful because that's my nature.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I like--I reneva--I renovate, make things look pretty--

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: And they end up costing twice or three times as much as I paid.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So--

S.B.: Was that in January?

E.A.: No that was on December 15th.

S.B.: Oh my word.

E.A.: And my landlord was so cute. He goes, "You were my first Paradise survivor, and you just came with your little garbage bags full of clothes and stuff.

S.B.: Yeah, you do what you gotta do.

E.A.: I had no furniture. I had a blowup mattress, that's all I had.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And then somebody donated a little TV. So I watch movies because I didn't have cable.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And--um--I had the cat. The cat would just walk around and sleep on the air mattress with me. And that's it.

S.B.: Yeah. So--so when did you find out that your home did not survive?

E.A.: Oh, the thing is--this is interesting--I kept working full time through all this.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: And I actually think that helped me. I worked in another field. I got a 01:05:00job because this is the stuff that I was doing before the fire.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: I took a test and I got a guard card. What that means is that you can be a security guard in the state of California.

S.B.: Right, right.

E.A.: And immediately they started employing me in Paradise.

S.B.: Oh wow.

E.A.: I had to keep driving back to Paradise, and I had all the clothes. So I drove back to see my house before anybody can see theirs. And when I drove back I go, "Oh [expletive], everything is--oh no, no." That's when I made the video and I go, "Okay if I see other neighbors that I know, I'll let them know." But there was a couple mobile homes that did survive.

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: And that was these ugly duckling little things that heat got, but they were fire retardant. And that means a big thing, all of the fire retardant ones survived. And all the ones by the sweep who survived, and the managers units survived. I can't believe it!

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: But he was by grass and--see--so--and cement. Grass here, cement there, no shrubs. He survived.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: See, he survived, but then he still doesn't have his job. There's nothing to manage.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Everybody else is gone.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: And even the supermarket across the street wasn't even open. You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But I got back there, and I mentioned to myself in my notes, "Was I back there on the 21st? And everybody, after thanksgiving they let them back.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So that was the end of November.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: But I didn't have hope or anything, I didn't know. I just thought, "If they say our town's pulverized, I'm going to imagine that my house is pulverized." And it was. It was like a pancake, I could kinda look through the cracks. I grabbed a little bit of pottery. The back shed was just flattened.

S.B.: Oh wow.

E.A.: So--you know--whatever I grabbed that one day, on the 8th, was everything I could get.

S.B.: On the eighth of?

E.A.: November.

S.B.: November. Right, okay. There was the norovirus outbreak in the shelters during the first week of the fire--

E.A.: I was never in a shelter.

S.B.: --were you affected by that?

E.A.: No.

S.B.: That's really lucky.

E.A.: I just don't do that. I try to think smart. I think about nursing, and 01:07:00infection, and stuff like that.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I don't like that.

S.B.: Yeah. And you say you're pretty healthy?

E.A.: I am--yep, I probably could live through that, but what--why push it? You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Plus I have the animals. You know what I mean?

S.B.: Yeah. In the second week of November, President Trump visited the burn area in Paradise. What did you think of his visit?

E.A.: You know, I'll be honest. I am a Democrat, and I did not ever vote for him. If I have a double lobotomy I still wouldn't vote for him, but at the same time I do understand that he's comparing us with another country. And we are doing what they said to do: clear the goddamn underbrush, clean it up, chop down trees. I mean, I love the trees. I love Paradise. I used to call it the poor man's [unintelligible]. It still is beautiful, and it will come back. But I do have to agree with Mr. Trump that when he says--see, I'm not even saying President Trump; he just passes so much stuff, that I'll say Mr. Trump--that he did say, "I do think they should clear a little more." He is right about that. I 01:08:00will agree a 100%. But the thing is he really didn't care. He came there. I'm glad he came there with Gavin Newsome, and with Jerry Brown. This is something that I don't know if the survivors are being really honest with you, Gavin Newsome gave me $10,000 dollars. He wrote a check. And why don't these other people be honest and tell you--that was way after the fact. I got that check maybe February, but still I go, "Hey man, I already voted for you, but thank you that seals the deal. You're a good person in my--in my book."

E.A.: He wrote it to you personally, or was that from the state?

E.A.: To the fire survivors, from the state of California.

S.B.: Oh okay, gotcha. Okay.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So I'm happy about that.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: That means that my mobile home is paid off, and all the money that I--Barbara gave me, I'm paying Barbara back and--

S.B.: Cool, yeah. And that feels secure.

E.A.: It does. And it feels that you're--you're acknowledged, that you're a citizen in this state. And that--what--regardless if you're voted for him or not, he's helping you out.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: It's not like Puerto Rico where you're throwing people--um--paper towels. 01:09:00You know?

E.A.: Yeah.

E.A.: Sorry.

S.B.: So how did you feel about sheltering and being away from your home? And having--

E.A.: I didn't want to be--

S.B.: --displaced?

E.A.: Because I go, "When I'm with those people, only they really understand what happened to me." And I went back--I went back and back, and I went to the Wal-Mart parking lot. And to me, the Wal-Mart parking lot was like a renaissance fair. [laugh]

S.B.: [laugh] Oh yeah?

E.A.: Because I'd been things like that where it's like, oh all these different people and animals and everything.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And it was just so beautiful. And then once again with religion, [voice breaks] I can't talked--not talk about religion because I met this next man from Sacramento with a black pug.

S.B.: Aww.

E.A.: And he was there, and there was this young girl there was about 20 something --that man was like in his mid-thirties--and then they go, "Well we didn't know what to do but we were in Sacramento, [voice breaks] and we thought we just want to help you somehow." And I go, "I know, I know." I go, "I'm 01:10:00finally getting clothes, and it's nice to get a meal, and I get to see the news. The news from here, not the news from Sacramento. Anyway, the girl goes, "Well, would you like everyone to pray--would you like to have a little prayer circle?" I go, "I never did that before, but it sounds like a good idea." So then we just prayed with the pug and everything, and I didn't have my pug so it was nice to have his pug. And I thought, "This is just beautiful that these guys came--just for such a long ways to pray with us." And another man--another prayer group was going around like singing and making music, and I thought, "These basic things are so important. Like good food, nonjudgmental attitude, music, and God--if you want God. And all these different nationalities, and all these different religions--like Buddhist--it doesn't matter what religion you are. Everybody was there.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And it was nice. And a lot of people were camped out. But then--and then 01:11:00there's a little bit of controversy because they were saying, "Well the homeless people are coming." I go, "They fucking need clothes and food. I don't mind if I share stuff with homeless people. Don't even bring that up, that's stupid." This one lady--

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: --I'm a size 16/18, right? And this one lady I just touched her back because I go, "I got a whole bunch of size small in your size." I'm like a salesperson [laugh]. I just am naturally. And I go, 'I got it organized. I got it folded. Its size small, is that you?" And she goes, "Yes." But I touched her back, and she was skin and bones. I go, "Goddamn it I'll feed her right now." [Voice breaks] This is really bad. You know? [Sniffles] There's a lot of homeless people. You know? And--

S.B.: Yeah. And a lot of folks who didn't have shelter -- [cross talk]

E.A.: Ooh yeah. [Sniffles] That's right, and that's why you identify with them because you're homeless too.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: It's just a different kind of homeless.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But anyway-- [laugh]

S.B.: And that was in the Wal-Mart parking lot?

E.A.: Yes! And I was yelling back and forth with different people. I was finding 01:12:00brand new beautiful merchandise that people were--you know--I got underwear that I'm still wearing, like brand new stuff. And I go, "God sometimes I go shopping inside, and I can't even find stuff that fits."

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But in the Wal-Mart parking lot I was finding everything.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And that's why I considered it like an oasis.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Like a renaissance fair, that's how I describe it.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And then, isn't it ironic? This weekend. There's another renaissance fair at the Feather Falls Casino [unintelligible].

S.B.: Oh yeah? [laugh]

E.A.: I always just like to know what's going on in my area, yeah.

S.B.: So let's talk a little bit about the shelter before the campfire. In September of 2018, Butte County declared a shelter crisis. What do you think about the county's response to the challenge of sheltering Camp Fire survivors?

E.A.: Oh they tried. Oh no, I give them brownie points. They absolutely tried, and they were really nice at--um--Wal-Mart. And even after Wal-Mart there's this little road where they're building, and they had a whole bunch of--um--mobile homes there. I mean they try try try try. It's just the people of Chico--you 01:13:00know--you live here, you go to school here, you work here. And the people of Chico are just sweethearts. I just--I almost--I am going to get to the point where I just hold up a big sign that says "Thank you." I will do it. I keep saying, How do I want to word that just right?" You know? So I'm just thinking how I'm gonna word it, but I will stand up there and it's not--there's--you know--never too late to say thank you. You know? Because immediately their city grew three times the size of--you know--how are you going to deal with that?

S.B.: Yeah

E.A.: I think they deal quite nicely with that.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I never saw anyone irate. I never saw anyone honking, beeping, cursing--never saw that.

S.B.: Yeah

E.A.: I always thought people that were polite.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And the FEMA workers [were] polite, nice--Jesus, and even when they weren't getting paid in January--do you remember that? I walked in there, and I said, "I am sorry you are not receiving a paycheck. That's bullshit. Thank you." I'm shaking their hands, "Thank you for helping me today, without pay."

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I'm really aware of what's going on in my world.

S.B.: Yeah, yeah.

E.A.: Oh yeah.

S.B.: So--

E.A.: I don't know if the other survivors mentioned that, but it's all part of the story.

S.B.: Yeah. So you went to the FEMA office multiple times just to be in connection?

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: So we can talk about that too. Since the Camp Fire, many evacuees have been displaced to other parts of Northern California and the United States. How have you been able to reconnect with friends who are living elsewhere right now?

E.A.: Well see, the first year I was there I worked so much as a nurse, and actually such hard nursing hours that I worked away from home. I was hardly home.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I would just be there to water the plants, feed the cat, and the little dog I would drop him off in Elk Grove.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: So he was the traveling nurse dog. You know? But I actually was working in the city of Stockton [laugh]--

S.B.: That's far.

E.A.: --which, if have a nursing assignment they go, "There's your nursing assignment and here's a switchblade, and you may need it.

S.B.: Oh wow.

E.A.: [laugh] Geez. Because I worked in Stockton--

S.B.: Mm-hmm.

E.A.: --for a month--the month of June before the fire. And I worked--when I say I worked--and I slept there. So it was essentially like working there two months.

S.B.: Hmm.

E.A.: It was a lot of pay, but a lot of hours. And a lot of time away from home.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So I really didn't know that many people in the town.

S.B.: In Paradise?

E.A.: I knew my businesses--like the liquor store guy was Greek, and I've been to Greece, people tell me I look Greek. I know Kalamata and [unintelligible], I talk with him. And so all of these businesses had a face for me.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Little town, that's what I liked.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And in my park, I was starting to meet people that were moving from Arizona and different places like that. And I knew my neighbors next door on both sides. This lady was bedridden so I really didn't know her, but I knew her relatives.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: People across the way, I would just say hi. I knew about the man that lived there-- vagabond, whatever--but nice guy. And--um--then I started becoming friends with the people down the way, but see I'm saying I just started because 01:16:00I lived there for two years.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: The first year I was just like nose to the grindstone just work. The second year, that's when I was starting to get to know everybody.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But--um--I didn't really go to their churches or anything like that. But that's the compliment that I have for paradise. Um--we had Halloween, and--you know--that's like a pagan holiday. And I just always wanted to say, "How do churches celebrate this?" The churches get a ten! The churches built like platforms, and they had live rock bands. One thing that I never saw in Paradise was graffiti, the kids were behaved. And I mean the middle--middle school little rascals that tend to misbehave, and graffiti, and whatever. I don't know, I don't have a child at that age.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: What I'm saying is this, the--everybody was like at the churches, and they were all like going to these rock concerts for Jesus and all this. And I go, "Make a note of this. Go to one of these concerts next year." Because I was like driving into town,--

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: --and I go, "This is awesome. This is why those kids were under control. --

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: --because they have society, and the church, and their family, and the teacher's looking after them making sure that those kids are all right."

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And now they're going to have a graduation I think--um--June 6th, and I'm going to go. You know? I don't have any high school kids or anything, but I'm going to clap so much [voice breaks], and I said I'm going to bring ten balloons that say "Graduate," and get a bunch of the Aloha leis and just pass them out to kids that don't seem to have one.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I'm gonna go. You know?

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: You're not my kids--you know--but that--the church was helping out raising those kids in that small town.

S.B.: Yeah, yeah.

E.A.: And I don't know if anyone mentions that, or like give kudos to the church, or to this town. No graffiti, and that tells you something right.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And I know there's a lot of police officers that retired in Paradise. They want to be incognito because--you know--they don't want you to go, "Oh, there's a cop." You know? Because then they'll ask us--you'll ask for their help [laugh].

S.B.: Oh. [laugh]

E.A.: But a lot of senior police officers have retired up there too. There's one story, I was at Clark--ok, I mentioned briefly that I came a security guard.

S.B.: Mm-hmm.

E.A.: And I was working full-time, and we're guarding two things up there. We're guarding the hospital--and that's on--uh--what's [that road]? Pence. Pence.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And then we're guarding the clinics. They were not damaged that much, they opened up right away. But anyway I was at the hospital, and--um--what's going on is that the firemen are starting to come back. Because that was Ground Zero, and that's where they were trying to battle that firing like crazy. And they were telling me--they go, "Liz, we worked 36 hours, and we slept like four hours." And one police-- or one fireman from--um-- Sonoma County--there are beautiful people out there in Sonoma and Napa. I want to go visit. You know--like I told you there's very nice citizens out there like you get on the road, and they wave at you, and smile. You know? Just nice Californians. Anyway, he told me across 01:19:00the street was his father-in-law's house, and he had to work on that hospital. And they--and they go by orders, it's almost like the military. They go, "Our order was to put out that hospital fire. I had to let my father-in-law's house burn to the ground." And I go, "You're telling me things like that?" And I'm just like, "That's part of the story that I did not know."

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And they're showing their wives on the weekend, "This is what we had to put out. Look up at it, how it looks." And--you know?

S.B.: Yeah. That's tough.

E.A.: Yeah, so I'm hearing the other point of view of the firemen, and that took my breath away too. Uh--I went to--uh--the Sears building, which was the FEMA Center, and the firemen they wanted to know--like, 'Okay what was your address young lady?" You know how they joke with you and stuff. And I go, "Okay--you know--I'm prepared" I said all that and he goes, "Well here you go." And that was the first person that gave me a handout, and he gave me a $250 visa card. And they go, [voice breaks] "I can't believe you firemen are giving those out." 01:20:00And I started crying. And then the firemen are so nice. They go, "Don't, because we're gonna start crying too." And I go, "It's just, I don't even have the words to say [voice breaks] thank you for giving me that." You know? And I got even more, but--I mean--that was the first one.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And that was just so touching--

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: --like I can't believe you just did that. And they go, "We do that for the--[sniffles] for the--the really bad tragedies. You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So...

S.B.: That's really good.

E.A.: You have them, and the Buddhists. The Buddhists helped you too. God.

S.B.: Yeah. So is there anything else that you wanted to share about your experience being displaced from your home?

E.A.: Well I just met more communities up here that I never knew about, like Cameron Park.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: A bed and breakfast helped me, and --uh--Airbnb.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Then there was one also in Marysville, and it was so remote--heh [laugh]. You could tell she was a super Airbnb person, but it was so remote that I was so 01:21:00scared. It was a country road in the night time, and if you go that way you're in a duck marsh, if you go that way you're in someone's home. But you're supposed to get the key--the keys hidden, open the gate, quickly close the gate. By God--I mean--I just have a very good sense of direction.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I found the house the first night, and I just wasn't--energy level to go there the second night.

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: I think I went to another Motel 6 because I go, "This is just crazy." And I didn't have my cat at that time, so I could stay in any hotel anyway.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I kept using Motel 6 because I knew what to expect.

S.B.: Yeah. So we're going to shift gears a little bit--

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: --and talk about recovery. Do you wanna take some water?

E.A.: Sure, yeah.

S.B.: Drink some water, and I'll drink some water too.

E.A.: Alright.

S.B.: [audibly gulps] So you've already mentioned a little bit about insurance and FEMA.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: Can you share with me your experience of recovery? There's some folks who 01:22:00owned or rented their homes, and they have documentation to rely upon. Can you share about working with insurance companies?

E.A.: Well, immediately what I did--[to herself] was that the very next morning? I was sitting in my car, and I go, "I'm going to call my insurance company." But my insurance lapsed, that was just because I was working so much that I usually just go to the Paradise office and just pay. And so I go, "I cannot believe I'm not one of these people that never have insurance." I go, "But I have no insurance."

S.B.: Oh man.

E.A.: I had no insurance, but the thing is I was living in a 1968 two-bedroom two bathroom mobile home.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I didn't expect much for the little piece of metal.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: You know what I'm saying?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And it wasn't like, "Oh this is our ancestral home." I had only been living there for two years. You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And the thing is my possessions were more important than the structure. You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: That was my first mobile home. So it didn't bother me that I lost that 01:23:00place. I wasn't heartbroken over that, just heartbroken over the pictures of my grandparents. That's all I care about.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: The rest of the stuff: clothes, even fabric could all be replaced. You know?

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: I'm sure my place blew up like that because I had so much fabric. I had enough fabric to fill up this wall.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: That's how much--can you imagine?

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: That--wow [laugh]. That was combustible.

S.B.: So there were some who didn't have any documentation to rely upon. Can you share about that recovery experience?

E.A.: Oh yeah, I didn't have any of the county stuff 'cause that went up. But--I mean-- passport, birth certificates--um--income taxes--uh--resume, references--mm--uh--university degrees--you know--I grabbed all of that off the walls.

S.B.: Right. So what kind of support were you able to receive? It sounds like you've had family support.

E.A.: Yeah, she [her daughter] helped me so much. And then when I was at the first [Air]bnb with the Irish woman--Debbie, that was her name. Um--she was 01:24:00nice. She goes, "Liz, there's a cup of coffee." And I wasn't even thinking about eating. I go, "I just gotta call FEMA, I better call FEMA." So I call FEMA, and then they gave me a number. You know? And that started everything rolling.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And they helped me, but it took a while--like it took--[to herself] was it 9/10 days? I don't know. And that's hard because what do you do? You gotta have a dwelling. You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But that's where the Airbnb, and my daughter was listening. And my 75-year-old mom was looking for real estate. She goes, "Honey, I got something up in Red Bluff! Or I'll go down there to Live Oak." She had me going all over the place. And I go, "Mom they look good, mom." And then all of a sudden, I became a senior. Because--you know--from one age a year. If you're 55, then you're a senior. So I moved up there when I wasn't, but then officially I was even though I don't feel like it.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: So anyway, then I go, 'Mom start looking for senior places too because that's a little bit ahead of the competition. Some of them are not seniors and they have a place that takes children, I don't."

S.B.: Yeah

E.A.: So that helped too.

S.B.: Yeah, okay.

E.A.: So that's the support system, people--when I couldn't call, because sometimes I could not, I would just go to sleep in the Motel six in my little guard outfit. You know? Because-- because I didn't have any clothes, so I had to guard outfit and I had the clothes I was wearing. So I would just wash the--the uniform.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And then just go to work the next day. When I had a day off, just try to recoup sleep because I usually work like the graveyard shift.

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: But in a way that was nice. Because I was still driving up to Paradise, and they don't have to see all the destruction. Because it's dark.

S.B.: Yeah, yeah.

E.A.: I just have to watch out for [laugh]--there was one bear, and there's two more cougars up there, and there's raccoons and coyotes. It's just a bunch of wildlife up there.

S.B.: Can you tell me about that security guard experience? How long did you do that job?

E.A.: I did that job for six months.

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: I just quit now.

S.B.: Oh wow.

E.A.: And then I went back to nursing. But it was actually--I'm actually still going to write the company because I do believe it was therapeutic work. I 01:26:00didn't have time to just wallow in problems. I had to say, "Okay, I have to be at work at two. What can I get done right now?

S.B.: Right, yeah.

E.A.: And that's nice. It kept me--it kept me--um--organized, and they kept me--and then the salary was coming in.

S.B.: Yeah, yeah that's a really good experience.

E.A.: Yeah because FEMA wasn't coming across right away. So the salary from the job was helping.

S.B.: Good, and so you said you worked mostly nights. Did you have a team that you worked with or were you on your own?

E.A.: Yes, and that became difficult because it got to be where people didn't want to talk about the fire. And there was one man that went through the fire like I did, and he didn't talk at all--like some men just don't communicate. And he's one of those; he just doesn't talk about anything. You know? We're stuck in a car together for eight hours for a shift, and he never talked about the fight. And I thought, [laugh] "Whatever." You know?

S.B.: Was he from the area?

E.A.: Yeah, he was from Paradise.

S.B.: Oh, he had the experience.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: And he said he was living in his mobile home, and then he finally bought a 01:27:00house somewhere. I don't know where--see? Because of how he is, and I respect that. That's his personality. You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But--um--yeah, so I did that job. I have something called a guard card, I can actually do that line of work again if I want to.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But I'm just very compassionate, and sometimes you can't be at that job. Like--

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: --no matter what the firemen tell you, you cannot let them on the property of the [phone rings] hospital because it's private property. [referring to her phone] Oh, let me put it on airplane mode.

S.B.: Oh that's okay.

E.A.: So it won't go off.

S.B.: Yeah. Well, I also want to be respectful of your time. I know we're coming off--

E.A.: No, I don't mind I'm off today.

S.B.: Okay, well that's good.

E.A.: [laugh] I want to be respectful of your time.

S.B.: Oh, well thank you. Um--so, you got a gig working as a security guard?

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: And you had that--you used that opportunity to--to go and see what the condition of your home was like.

E.A.: I did, and I love it. I'm always like that.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: It's not legal--eh--it's not illegal--like I'm not breaking any rules.

S.B.: It's a privilege, and you took it--you know--you used that opportunity. Yeah.

E.A.: [laugh] I'm wearing that yellow jacket --

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: --you know--everybody's in yellow so you just blend.

S.B.: Yeah

E.A.: I looked at it like I'm in Hollywood this like a Hollywood party and I'm busting it because I want to see what happened to my property.

S.B.: Yeah. Well I understand that--

E.A.: Of course.

S.B.: --and I don't think anybody would fault you, yeah.

E.A.: Anybody would do it if they had the chance.

S.B.: Absolutely. Uh--but you said something about--um--that you're compassionate person, and that you felt like that wasn't a place you could be compassionate because you have rules.

E.A.: They had to turn it down. Yeah because they will not--whatever sob story--even the firefighters, like they wanted to bring their families back to ground zero and show them where they slept or whatever. And I understand, but no you can't let them on the property. Yeah.

E.A.: 'Cuz I have a university degree like you do, and I work with people that don't. They don't even have college degrees.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: It's like I could tell the difference. You know? Because the difference would be that you hear their story--I brought pizza that day. I usually never 01:29:00do, but I got pizza for everybody. And then I was like, 'Okay I bought 2 pizzas." Then I was giving pizza to the fireman and his wife in the car, and cold waters to them. And I don't care, but that probably gets company policy too--screw that. I just do what feels right.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: Because now I'm not with the company, and I know I did the right thing.

S.B.: Yeah. And so you were guarding the hospital at that time?

E.A.: And also the clinics.

S.B.: And did--

E.A.: 'Cause they have computer stuff, and everything, and drugs. You have to watch out because there's a lot of people there that stayed.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And there's a lot of--they call them tweakers or something--I don't know--I don't take drugs, but they walk around. And one of them, I met him at two in the morning he was acting like he was putting garbage away. And I go, "What--you are out of place." You know? [laugh] And so I didn't have a problem telling him to move along--move along get off of the property.

S.B.: Yeah. So that's definitely something that did come up a lot. It's that there were-- there was at least one arrest.

E.A.: Oh, looters ?S.B.: There were looters, yeah.

E.A.: I used to go to this--it's called American Gas Station on Skyway--and--um--nice Indian people own that business, and I would just go buy my gas there even though it's more expensive because I want to support them. And right after they opened up somebody broke their glass front window, and now they have it all meshed and protected and stuff.

S.B.: Hmm.

E.A.: And I go, "That just makes me mad that you're just trying to come back, and these looters are just trying to shoot you down." You know?

S.B.: That's hard.

E.A.: It is.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And--you know-- it doesn't matter what nationality, I'm just mad at the people that do that to them.

S.B.: Yeah. So we are about to close--

E.A.: Okay.

S.B.: --but--um--I wanted to ask your thoughts about PG&E.

E.A.: Oh. PG&E is like us. PG&E is a bunch of middle-class people.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: You know? And I had no problems with them giving them their bonuses. Because they burned their bonuses like: no sick days, safety good--safety 01:31:00record. I have no problem with that, but I am suing PG&E.

S.B.: You are?

E.A.: And I will get a settlement. I was the first person to sign up!

S.B.: Wow.

E.A.: With--with--uh--Mr. Robinson in Los Angeles.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: He's who's who of lawyers.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: He's really good. And that's it, so I don't like the CEO of PG& E but I'm smart enough to divide the two. I like the people that work for PG&E. I have power right now, and I'm going to keep on having power with them. They're actually doing something special for me that I don't understand. First they got my bill mixed up with my manager,--

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: --and I got a bill for $300 when I just moved there. I go, "What the hell?" And I got this funky black woman on the opposite end of--um--the phone. I could tell, I could hear her ethnicity coming through the phone. And she goes "Honey, don't worry about that. We're going to work it out." And then they ended up--I had to pay a $100 and something, which was still too high.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Because my bills in Paradise were only the twenties [$20]. I don't use 01:32:00that much power. I'm not always there.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Anyway they worked it out, the next month the bill was free.

S.B.: Oh.

E.A.: And now the bill was like $17 dollars. I go, "I don't know. I'm not going to say anything", but I'm on PG&E's good side.

S.B.: Oh, excuse me.

E.A.: [laugh]

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: So, no I have no qualms against them.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I know there's going to be a settlement. Probably next year. I'm logical, I know how things go very slowly.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But no, [laugh] I was the first person to sign up to sue them.

S.B.: Okay, yeah.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: Um--and so you had mentioned that you've purchased another home --

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: --out of the area, but you still come back to the area--

E.A.: Always.

S.B.: --to visit?

E.A.: Because I'm like in my little--I'm like 7 miles from Butte County.

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: See? So it's like I patronize businesses in Gridley --that's the town I'm right by--mostly I go to Yuba City , that's a bigger town. And--um--I actually went to the clinic as a patient. Because I thought, "Well I haven't had that physical." [laugh] I'm terrified something's wrong with myself. I go, "I'm just 01:33:00so damn healthy." But I went to the physical, the nurse practitioner was beautiful, she was hugging me, I was hugging her. She was--all she could tell me, "Well, have more water in your life." And I go,--

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: "Hey, very holistic okay fine." And she gave me a tetanus shot. She goes "I can't do anything with you're just so damn healthy."

S.B.: Oh nice.

E.A.: So I--I purposely did that. I could go anywhere, but I thought, "Let me go to the clinic because I want to give them business."

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: That's it.

S.B.: So I have to ask about what are your long-term plans?

E.A.: Well I actually looked at some property up in Paradise. There's property on a hill that I could never touch before. But now and it's only like $55 thousand, and it's like a swimming pool and land. And I thought, "Well I could put like a mobile home there," or whatever. You don't know, you have to deal with the county and see what they're going to permit.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: But I'm actually really happy in the senior place I'm at right now. And since I moved there two other families moved there that are from the fire.

S.B.: Right.

E.A.: And one guy I brought him a "welcome pack". I just said, "Well--you know--I'm from fire too. So just so you know I'm down there if you ever want to talk or whatever." I just thought, "I'll be nice because people always have good intentions but they don't take time out of their day until the other person."

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: "So I will absolutely do that with that guy."

S.B.: Cool, so has he--has he taken you up on that?

E.A.: No--

S.B.: Did he just move?

E.A.: --I think he's busy because I think he has other family friends, and he's like all over the place.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And I'm kind of more like became a homebody. I'm like, "I love my house. I love to be home when I'm painting a wall, painting the outside--I'm gardening." That's therapeutic for me.

S.B.: Yeah. Good.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: I have to ask you what you're worried about?

E.A.: Worried about anything? Meh--no, actually I know I'm going to be coming into a good settlement with PG&E. And now, just on a fluke I've had two hernia surgeries. I mean, another thing with a hernia suit--not that I care about that, but the lawyers do. And how I look at it is, "I'm helping the economy, fine."

S.B.: Okay. Yeah okay.

E.A.: [laugh] And those lawyers they said, "Well we're in Who's Who with Los Ang--with--um--with Texas. So, --

S.B.: Okay.

E.A.: --lawyers they're fine. I have a very nice recommendation from a lawyer, a French lawyer, in Sacramento where I cared for his mom and she had lung cancer stage and she never smoked a day in her life. So he just loves me and I love him. And he's my example of a great lawyer. You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: They're human, you know? Some of them are creepy, and some of them were just out for money and chasing ambulance--all of those are stereotypes. You know-- everybody's human, and that's why I have no qualms against PG&E. They're middle-class people just like us, with families.

S.B.: Yeah, okay. What brings you hope about the recovery up on the ridge?

E.A.: Ooh.

S.B.: Or even your own personal recovery?

E.A.: I don't know. I get like--not the word scared--but I think maybe I'll go 01:36:00more into like religion, like become minister or something like that. More where I'm helping people more. Because I go, "Once you live through disasters--and I always said that you know what's important in life. Like, if I was going to be stranded on a desert island I will choose a rabbi priest--you know--different people to be there with me to keep society in check. You know? That's why it's important. Because I know people that are raising their children now with no religion, and they say, "Well when they're old enough I'll let them choose." Well--but they need the guidance now. They need to know what's right and wrong. And not just feel like if I don't see it on a cell phone it doesn't exist.

S.B.: Hmm.

E.A.: And I'm like, "I've seen too much on that to know that--that does exist. You know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: So I just would like to help people in that way.

S.B.: You seem like a really spiritual person. And I think that's a calling--like a vocational calling--

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: --that I think you're responding to.

E.A.: I'm touching with this Parsons family, and they raised their kids Methodist--every single kid. Even children they adopted. And they'd come--there's a veterinarian, Barbara got her Master's later on in life. Bob's a registered nurse. Everybody turned out good. My daughter is half Parsons, and also me though because Dad was always busy working. And I'm the one that went to every single PTA meeting, and I know how important it is. All that stuff has a place in society for a reason.

S.B.: Yeah, yeah.

E.A.: And you could be jaded and say, "Oh it's all money." No, it's not. It's teachers that want to get to know the parent, and shake your hand, and realize you're going through it together. You know--whenever you have your child go to those PTA things those teachers--sometimes you're the only parents sitting there.

S.B.: Yeah, wow.

E.A.: But--and that's what they say they go, "It's always the--the good kid in school--" and the parents sitting there, and they go, "--the ones that our problems we don't see those parents." That's--that's life.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: Was there anything else that you want to share about your experience?

E.A.: Just that I don't know if I'm suffering--like PTSD. So I noticed you had your Butte County number, and I'm going to go. I know they have intake on Mondays and Wednesdays. I thought, "Go because maybe if we have like a little roundtable discussion with other survivors it might help them to hear me talk, and then help me to hear them."

S.B.: Yeah, absolutely.

E.A.: I'm going to do.

S.B.: Okay well, I will definitely share than the paperwork back with you and then you'll have the copy for your own record.

E.A.: I never mind, because it's like if you're helping someone you are helping and nourishing your soul at the same time.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: It's true, it's true. And that's one thing I learned being a social worker. I did welfare benefits for five years, and that was--man, like in the trenches. They're throwing things--actually they're swearing at you. The phone's ringing before you even get to your assigned desk. [laugh]

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: And that was like working in the trenches. So, and what I 01:39:00learned--treating people--respect, that word is always thrown around, especially in jail and stuff like that. But if you treat people with dignity and respect, all social-ethnic groups, then guess what? I got people that swore at me and hung up on me one day, and the next day they called me back and apologized. And I go, "Wow, I didn't even expect that." Or they come in person and they go--and they'll tell other people in line--"Don't get any other worker. Get her, she'll pay your childcare on her lunch break." I do. Because I go, "That's a childcare worker that that needs to be paid, and they haven't been paid for three months. What?" I just go, "I don't even make excuses for the county. I just pick." You what I'm saying? don't sink. And it's like this rich country has the money, and the money has to get out to the people that deserve it.

S.B.: Yeah yeah.

E.A.: But not just a handout. Give them skills and jobs and stuff like that where they can--you know--'cuz they have dignity. I've tried to give people things. Sometimes I had extra blankets and stuff like that. And they go, "I have 01:40:00enough. I have enough." You wouldn't believe how many homeless people act like that. Where I go, "I have to be a salesperson to give away this blanket, and I've already asked ten so--ten homeless people in one day." And they all tell me, "I have enough, but go over and ask that lady." Things like that.

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: There's an organization about being homeless, and there's a--there's a like a code of ethics with the homeless. And I mean, San Francisco, and Chico, and--I've met them. You know?

S.B.: Yeah, okay. Well, --

E.A.: [laugh]

S.B.: --thank you.

E.A.: I don't even know what time it is, or what day it is.

S.B.: Thank you for being here.

E.A.: [cross talk] [inaudible]

S.B.: Yeah I'm so glad that you made the time. I knew you--

E.A.: I had to.

S.B.: --were traveling on your way to get somewhere else, and I'm really grateful that you could squeeze me in.

E.A.: I just woke up in a smiley happy mood like, "I'm gonna talk to Stefani, and I want to."

S.B.: Aww thank you Liz. Is it okay if I call you that?

E.A.: Yes it is.

S.B.: Okay great. Well I appreciate you.

E.A.: Okay. Because I go, "You need well rounded interviews." And mine is a 01:41:00hodgepodge of everything.

S.B.: Right. Well, and I think the other thing is that everybody is going to bring a different experience to this. Everybody has so far.

E.A.: I love law enforcement, and firemen, and--and volunteers. And this is--for four weeks afterwards I'm cruising the car with me I would be--and I would clap [claps] every time I saw a fireman going by.

S.B.: Aww.

E.A.: And then they would beep, and I would go, "Aww.". And now when I see the big FEMA houses coming I go, "Every single family's getting a house." And then I start clapping and beeping again. And I'm creating a little ruckus, but I don't care. It's important, you know?

S.B.: Yeah.

E.A.: I almost beeped for the convicts [laugh] this morning because I go, "They save lives." They're not just spending time-- [cross talk]

S.B.: They do, they put their lives on the line.

E.A.: --in jail. They were actually being productive, and they get out, and there's a job for them. You know?

S.B.: Yeah, well yeah, I mean I think that the cool thing about it--

E.A.: In this state with all these fires? Oh gosh.

S.B.: Yeah, yeah. I think the cool thing about that job is that they--they get a 01:42:00chance to live an exciting thrill seeking-- kind of experience--

E.A.: Can you imagine? [cross talk]

S.B.: -- kind of experience, and that maybe that adrenaline rush is all some folks need.

E.A.: Yeah.

S.B.: Right?

E.A.: Right.

S.B.: Um--anyway--

E.A.: Yeah, they might not have had a job like that ever. And they go, 'I'm making a difference, or I rescued this dog --

S.B.: Or saved this house."

E.A.: Yes.

S.B.: Yeah, it's a cool thing.

E.A.: Mm-hmm.

S.B.: I'm glad California has it.

E.A.: And that happens on the road as I'm driving here. I go, "See? It's all interconnected, it really is."